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eugene
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 Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:21 am Post subject: proper usage |
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need a real quick response to this. I am writing a caption for a friend and
he has asked me to write "the football team which defeated their rivals etc
etc".This sounds wrong to me. I think it should be either "the team who" or
"the team that". Anybody......................? |
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:21 am Post subject: Advertisement |
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PeterMcC
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: proper usage |
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eugene wrote in
<OtSdnRsUNcs3PPbaRVnyggA@bt.com>
| Quote: | need a real quick response to this. I am writing a caption for a
friend and he has asked me to write "the football team which defeated
their rivals etc etc".This sounds wrong to me. I think it should be
either "the team who" or "the team that".
Anybody......................?
|
IMHO
It ain't "who".
It's "which" if it introduces a subordinate clause, e.g.
"The football team, which qualified for the Champions League, behaved
appallingly at the Christmas party."
Note the commas round the clause introduced by the "which". It should be
possible to remove the clause bracketed by the commas and still leave the
main idea intact, e.g.
"The football team behaved appallingly at the Christmas party."
It's "that" if it introduces a clause that indicates a restriction applying
only to that team, e.g.
"The football team that wins the most points ends up at the top of the
table."
HTH
--
PeterMcC
If you feel that any of the above is incorrect,
inappropriate or offensive in any way,
please ignore it and accept my apologies. |
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Julian
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: proper usage |
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I believe that there is a certain amount of dispute about the correct
"restricive relative pronoun" - "which" or "that". I frequently disagree
with Word's grammar.
Personally - and I can't say any more than that - it just feels better to me
this way...
I would say (despite having neither a blue car nor a garage <g>)
The car [that] I bought yesterday, which is blue, is very fast.
Of the two cars in my garage, the car that is blue was bought yesterday.
Re your specific caption, my preference would also be "The team that
defeated their rivals..." (assuming that this means "[This is] the team
that...") unless the rest of the caption suggests otherwise - such as "The
football team, which won on Saturday, looking glorious in their new kit..."
So, if English were democratic, you'd be one vote up now :)
But my wife says I don't know grammer like wot she does...
--
Julian I-Do-Stuff
Some Vista stuff, but mostly just Stuff at http://berossus,blogspot.com
"eugene" <eugene@home.com> wrote in message
news:OtSdnRsUNcs3PPbaRVnyggA@bt.com...
| Quote: | need a real quick response to this. I am writing a caption for a friend
and he has asked me to write "the football team which defeated their
rivals etc etc".This sounds wrong to me. I think it should be either "the
team who" or "the team that". Anybody......................? |
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DeanH
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:15 pm Post subject: RE: proper usage |
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Really depends on the context of the whole passage:
"which" and "that" can often be used correctly. Personal choice and
consistency throughout your text.
"who" can be correct if you are infering "team" as a common noun.
Does this help? 
DeanH
"eugene" wrote:
| Quote: | need a real quick response to this. I am writing a caption for a friend and
he has asked me to write "the football team which defeated their rivals etc
etc".This sounds wrong to me. I think it should be either "the team who" or
"the team that". Anybody......................?
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eugene
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: proper usage |
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"DeanH" <DeanH@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:6D935B09-D0F1-4795-AC0E-97FFE6E68854@microsoft.com...
| Quote: | Really depends on the context of the whole passage:
"which" and "that" can often be used correctly. Personal choice and
consistency throughout your text.
"who" can be correct if you are infering "team" as a common noun.
Does this help?
DeanH
"eugene" wrote:
need a real quick response to this. I am writing a caption for a friend
and
he has asked me to write "the football team which defeated their rivals
etc
etc".This sounds wrong to me. I think it should be either "the team who"
or
"the team that". Anybody......................?
|
Thanks everybody for the advice. I ran with "who" but I now have doubts but
as I had said, I was needing a real fast response as I was in a hell of a
hurry!
Happy Christmas |
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PeterMcC
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: proper usage |
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eugene wrote in
<JdadnVIwoJjJLPbanZ2dnUVZ8rOdnZ2d@bt.com>
| Quote: | "DeanH" <DeanH@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:6D935B09-D0F1-4795-AC0E-97FFE6E68854@microsoft.com...
Really depends on the context of the whole passage:
"which" and "that" can often be used correctly. Personal choice and
consistency throughout your text.
"who" can be correct if you are infering "team" as a common noun.
Does this help?
DeanH
"eugene" wrote:
need a real quick response to this. I am writing a caption for a
friend and
he has asked me to write "the football team which defeated their
rivals etc
etc".This sounds wrong to me. I think it should be either "the team
who" or
"the team that". Anybody......................?
Thanks everybody for the advice. I ran with "who" but I now have
doubts but as I had said, I was needing a real fast response as I was
in a hell of a hurry!
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All said and done, who/which/that cares ;)
And yourself.
--
PeterMcC
If you feel that any of the above is incorrect,
inappropriate or offensive in any way,
please ignore it and accept my apologies. |
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