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Shenan Stanley
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 Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:47 pm Post subject: Advertisement |
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dkhyland
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| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:27 am Post subject: Re: Windows Vista back to XP SP2 |
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Mr. Stanley and Mr. McDaniel, again, I really appreciate all of your help.
I'm sure with all of this valuable info my laptop will be working just fine.
I hope you guys work out your differences down the road. Just know both of
your threads were very helpful and it is interesting to see 2 opinions. When
I get the Win XP restoration discs from HP and this thread is still visible,
I will post a status update. Hope you both have a safe and happy holiday.
Devin
"Shenan Stanley" wrote:
| Quote: | Complete conversation:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment/browse_frm/thread/42cae0f20f525c61/e965a73e3d06244b?lnk=st&q=#e965a73e3d06244b
snipped
dkhyland wrote:
I ordered a Windows XP Pro recovery disc set from HP. Can I just
put in the CD, follow the instructions and then download any
Windows updates afterwards? I have backed up all data so to restore
the laptop to "out of the box" status is not a problem.
Gis Bun wrote:
Just follow the instructions. Hopefully they should give some basic
information.
A good suggestion would be to unplug any USB or other devices that
are not needed. Once you have Windows up to date plus any firewall
and anti-virus, download the latest drivers for your devices and
then plug in each device one at a time (and installing the
corresponding drivers). Note that some require you to install the
software and then connect the device when instructed to.
Only downside with HP usually is the fact that their recovery CD
may be not recently updated. So you may need to download quite a
bit of updates. [Someone I know just got Vista and it required
146MB in 26 updates to get it up to date. System build was in May.]
Donald L McDaniel wrote:
I would just download XP SP3 RC. It will make your OS fully
up-to-date, as well as make it run MUCH better.
It is rather large (about 450MB), so unless you have a high-speed
connection, I would wait till next week and purchase the disk from
Microsoft for about $10.
Shenan Stanley wrote:
I would call that 'uninformed advice' - at best.
First - Windows XP SP3 *is* 366MB.
Second - as you stated - it is an RC.. Release Candidate. In fact
it is "Release Candidate 1" and when the final version comes out
(supposedly sometime next year) the RC version (if installed) will
likely need to be uninstalled before the final release should be
installed. Not to mention - being "RC1" - there may very well be
an RC2, RC3, etc before it is finally release.
Donald L McDaniel wrote:
Sorry, got the wrong size.
However, I am in NO WAY "uninformed", as you claim. I gave good
advice. Basically, the same advice everyone else gave the OP.
In any case, he should be able to purchase a disk for about $10
when Microsoft gets ready. Sometime next week, hopefully (or
maybe that's just for the Vista SP1 RC).
How is my suggestion to install XP SP3 Release Candidate
"uninformed"? I spoke pretty much the truth -- It does improve
XP's performance muchly. And if he installs it, he will only have
to download a few updates (5 or 6 at most. Considering that a clean
install of XP even with Service Pack 2 will require over 100
updates to be downloaded, I believe I've given good advice.)
Because I confused the size of the XP SP3 Release Candidate
download with the Vista SP1 Release Candidate, I am somehow
"uninformed"? Get real bud.
Shenan Stanley wrote:
The last statement is uncalled for...
As I clearly stated, "I would call that 'uninformed advice' - at best."
-
So *I* think it is uninformed for the following reasons:
I think it is 'uninformed' because you are recommending to a ordinary
computer user they install a product *from Microsoft* that is ADMITTEDLY
unfinished. If you think the products they release/support have the
possibilities for issues (you would be correct) then the products they
release for testing/provide no support for would be even worse and
recommending that as a solution to any problem is wreckless...
I think it is uninformed because Microsoft has not actually said much
about
it other than this:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/936929
And to download it direct from Microsoft, you have to 'stumble across' the
link:
http://download.windowsupdate.com/msdownload/update/v3-19990518/cabpool/windowsxp-kb936929-sp3-x86-enu_a2ca583dedcd86837796111a632efa29a23f4cc0.exe
.... and as far as I know - they have made no announcement of making
Windows
XP SP3 available by CD at this time (they will likely make the final
available in this way - but not the Release Candidate - and likely in the
same way they did SP2 - free at first - just for shipping later.) I also
have not seen any such announcement about Vista SP1 RCs... I think that
would be a monumentally bad choice by Microsoft - to make PUBLICALLY
available by CD/DVD a release candidate/beta version of a service pack.
The
download - I can understand... It steers fairly clear of the people who
rely
strictly on built-in mechanisms (or they wouldn't likely update at all.)
However - presenting it in CD/DVD format could cause those who would not
normally test such things to 'test it' without thinking/knowing they are
'testing'.
I think it is uninformed because you did not bother to explain to the OP
that Windows XP SP3 RC1 was beta/pre-release. You did not use the
knowledge
you have to warn the OP that what you are suggesting is to install
unfinished and unsupported updates to their operating system which could
change things drastically and cause more problems than it solves.
Perhaps you believe that SP3 is nothing but a rollup of the 90+ post-sp2
updates? Perhaps you have a representative of every software/hardware
package/device available in the world at your place of business/home and
have tried it with all possible combinations so you are actually making an
informed recommendation to the OP... I somehow doubt/doubted that,
however.
If you were trying to help - you would not recommend that a novice
computer
user install unsupported software that changes the entire architecture of
their computer and that they most likely will have to uninstall at some
future date in order to get the fully released/fully supported product.
It's going by the incorrect assumption that, "It works on my stuff -
should
be fine on everyone elses..." That assumption - especially when it comes
to
the millions of possibilities such as can be found here - is normally a
bad
one to make.
dkhyland wrote:
Itruly appreciate the advice from the both of you. Yes, I am a
novice user, to a point. Since I am not in any timeframe to
complete this long task, I think I'll play it safe and install the
Win XP recovery discs, follow the instructions and unfortunately go
through the XP updates one by one. I consider it my penalty for
jumping the gun on Windows Vista and installing it on my laptop so
soon. I have that tendency especially with techie stuff.
Donald L McDaniel wrote:
And I recognized that. Which is why I suggested you download and
install XP SP3. However, if your laptop is a "cheapie" model, I do
not suggest installing a release candidate on it. In this, Mr.
Stanley is correct.
But Mr. Stanley, apparently, has little respect for anyone but his
friends and co-workers.
This is the problem with most of the Microsoft shills who regularly
post here: They have huge egos (and some of them even have a right
to have such huge egos, because they have huge knowledge and
understanding to go along with it), but little true concern for the
people they claim to be "helping". And they have absolutely no
respect for anyone who is not in their little "clique". In this,
they are much like Mac Fanatics.
Donald L McDaniel, I welcome your opinion. I encourage you to present it.
I gave you mine - but instead of point and counter-point, you have decided
to ignore my response and only reply elsewhere, making a personal attack
upon me for which you have no basis. I would have hoped that someone
willing to help would be willing to backup the advice they have given when a
differing opinion is presented. It would not have mattered who you were -
my response would not have differed.
Microsoft means very little to me. If they go away today - my life only
changes a little. If these newsgroups disappear - there are other places to
help. I don't work for Microsoft, have never worked for Microsoft and most
likely will not work for Microsoft in my lifetime. I do use some of their
software and understand some of their software and willingly and freely
share that understanding here. I can just as easily (and do) help people
with OS X, *nix, etc. I choose the Microsoft stuff for the most part
because it has the most people utilizing it and is the most prevalent around
me at the moment.
I respect the fact that you are trying to help people, Donald L McDaniel.
That's fine.
I find it difficult to believe that you think telling someone to install a
pre-release Microsoft product that is unsupported (and is advertised as
such) is helping someone. They don't save any download time, they might
save effort,but there are other ways to save them effort and make sure that
the material they get is supported...
The simplest suggest I can make, dkhyland, is to install your new Operating
System and make sure the Windows XP firewall is enabled. Hopfully it will
come with at least SP2 out of the box - but if it does not - please obtain
and install that before placing that machine on the Internet.
Direct Download of Service Pack 2 (SP2) for Windows XP
(You can download it and bring it to the machine using any means you have.)
http://snipurl.com/8bqy
Order Windows XP Service Pack 2 on CD
http://snipurl.com/d41v
After you have Windows XP SP2 installed (which will mean by default the
Windows XP Firewall is enabled) - then you can connect it to the Internet
and visit:
http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/
Where you can use the custom scan option (after a couple of installs
probably) to select and install all the critical updates you desirte (If
Internet Explorer 7 is still listed there - I consider that one 'optional'
on a per-person basis. You don't *have* to get that right now if you don't
want it.) After you have downloaded all the critical updates and rebooted -
visit the site again and custom scan again... There may be more critical.
If so, get those. Keep repeating this until you at least run out of
critical updates.
Then you can revisit that website and get the optional updates if you
desire... I recommend most of them - however - you may not want to get
Media Player 11 just yet. Depends on what software is installed on your
computer after the restoration. If an older versionn of Roxio Easy CD
Creator) is installed - (v8.x or before) then avoid it for now. They don't
get along. Otherwise - everything in the Optional category is game for
you - download and install away.
Do not get any of the hardware drivers from the site.
Once you have visited, rebooted, visited, rebooted and cleaned the site of
all updates you wanted to get... You are done with the Microsoft portion
and can install your other stuff.
The rest is a lot of information - but it is laid out in a manner that is
easy to understand - I hope...
Since I don't know much about the computer you are installing on - perhaps
you need to free up some space at this point as well...
If you are comfortable with the stability of your system, you can delete the
uninstall files for the patches that Windows XP has installed...
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/spack.htm
Used Disk Cleanup?
Is hibernate turned on and do you use that feature?
Uninstalled unnecessary applications lately?
You can run Disk Cleanup - built into Windows XP - to erase all but your
latest restore point and cleanup even more "loose files"..
How to use Disk Cleanup
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310312
You can turn off hibernation if it is on and you don't use it..
When you hibernate your computer, Windows saves the contents of the system's
memory to the hiberfil.sys file. As a result, the size of the hiberfil.sys
file will always equal the amount of physical memory in your system. If you
don't use the hibernate feature and want to recapture the space that Windows
uses for the hiberfil.sys file, perform the following steps:
- Start the Control Panel Power Options applet (go to Start, Settings,
Control Panel, and click Power Options).
- Select the Hibernate tab, clear the "Enable hibernation" check box, then
click OK; although you might think otherwise, selecting Never under the
"System hibernates" option on the Power Schemes tab doesn't delete the
hiberfil.sys file.
- Windows will remove the "System hibernates" option from the Power Schemes
tab and delete the hiberfil.sys file.
You can control how much space your System Restore can use...
1. Click Start, right-click My Computer, and then click Properties.
2. Click the System Restore tab.
3. Highlight one of your drives (or C: if you only have one) and click on
the "Settings" button.
4. Change the percentage of disk space you wish to allow.. I suggest moving
the slider until you have just about 1GB (1024MB or close to that...
5. Click OK.. Then Click OK again.
You can control how much space your Temporary Internet Files can utilize...
Empty your Temporary Internet Files and shrink the size it stores to a
size between 64MB and 256MB..
- Open ONE copy of Internet Explorer.
- Select TOOLS -> Internet Options.
- Under the General tab in the "Temporary Internet Files" section, do the
following:
- Click on "Delete Cookies" (click OK)
- Click on "Settings" and change the "Amount of disk space to use:" to
something between 64MB and 256MB. (It may be MUCH larger right
now.)
- Click OK.
- Click on "Delete Files" and select to "Delete all offline contents"
(the checkbox) and click OK. (If you had a LOT, this could take 2-10
minutes or more.)
- Once it is done, click OK, close Internet Explorer, re-open Internet
Explorer.
You can use an application that scans your system for log files and |
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dkhyland
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:16 am Post subject: Re: Windows Vista back to XP SP2 |
|
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Question: I have received 2 discs from HP. 1) Operating System CD Win XP Pro
SP2 and 2) Aplication and Driver Recovery DVD. When I run the OS CD, it tells
me that it's blocked due to compatibility issues. I can't go any further.
Please advise. Thanks, Devin
"dkhyland" wrote:
| Quote: | Mr. Stanley and Mr. McDaniel, again, I really appreciate all of your help.
I'm sure with all of this valuable info my laptop will be working just fine.
I hope you guys work out your differences down the road. Just know both of
your threads were very helpful and it is interesting to see 2 opinions. When
I get the Win XP restoration discs from HP and this thread is still visible,
I will post a status update. Hope you both have a safe and happy holiday.
Devin
"Shenan Stanley" wrote:
Complete conversation:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment/browse_frm/thread/42cae0f20f525c61/e965a73e3d06244b?lnk=st&q=#e965a73e3d06244b
snipped
dkhyland wrote:
I ordered a Windows XP Pro recovery disc set from HP. Can I just
put in the CD, follow the instructions and then download any
Windows updates afterwards? I have backed up all data so to restore
the laptop to "out of the box" status is not a problem.
Gis Bun wrote:
Just follow the instructions. Hopefully they should give some basic
information.
A good suggestion would be to unplug any USB or other devices that
are not needed. Once you have Windows up to date plus any firewall
and anti-virus, download the latest drivers for your devices and
then plug in each device one at a time (and installing the
corresponding drivers). Note that some require you to install the
software and then connect the device when instructed to.
Only downside with HP usually is the fact that their recovery CD
may be not recently updated. So you may need to download quite a
bit of updates. [Someone I know just got Vista and it required
146MB in 26 updates to get it up to date. System build was in May.]
Donald L McDaniel wrote:
I would just download XP SP3 RC. It will make your OS fully
up-to-date, as well as make it run MUCH better.
It is rather large (about 450MB), so unless you have a high-speed
connection, I would wait till next week and purchase the disk from
Microsoft for about $10.
Shenan Stanley wrote:
I would call that 'uninformed advice' - at best.
First - Windows XP SP3 *is* 366MB.
Second - as you stated - it is an RC.. Release Candidate. In fact
it is "Release Candidate 1" and when the final version comes out
(supposedly sometime next year) the RC version (if installed) will
likely need to be uninstalled before the final release should be
installed. Not to mention - being "RC1" - there may very well be
an RC2, RC3, etc before it is finally release.
Donald L McDaniel wrote:
Sorry, got the wrong size.
However, I am in NO WAY "uninformed", as you claim. I gave good
advice. Basically, the same advice everyone else gave the OP.
In any case, he should be able to purchase a disk for about $10
when Microsoft gets ready. Sometime next week, hopefully (or
maybe that's just for the Vista SP1 RC).
How is my suggestion to install XP SP3 Release Candidate
"uninformed"? I spoke pretty much the truth -- It does improve
XP's performance muchly. And if he installs it, he will only have
to download a few updates (5 or 6 at most. Considering that a clean
install of XP even with Service Pack 2 will require over 100
updates to be downloaded, I believe I've given good advice.)
Because I confused the size of the XP SP3 Release Candidate
download with the Vista SP1 Release Candidate, I am somehow
"uninformed"? Get real bud.
Shenan Stanley wrote:
The last statement is uncalled for...
As I clearly stated, "I would call that 'uninformed advice' - at best."
-
So *I* think it is uninformed for the following reasons:
I think it is 'uninformed' because you are recommending to a ordinary
computer user they install a product *from Microsoft* that is ADMITTEDLY
unfinished. If you think the products they release/support have the
possibilities for issues (you would be correct) then the products they
release for testing/provide no support for would be even worse and
recommending that as a solution to any problem is wreckless...
I think it is uninformed because Microsoft has not actually said much
about
it other than this:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/936929
And to download it direct from Microsoft, you have to 'stumble across' the
link:
http://download.windowsupdate.com/msdownload/update/v3-19990518/cabpool/windowsxp-kb936929-sp3-x86-enu_a2ca583dedcd86837796111a632efa29a23f4cc0.exe
.... and as far as I know - they have made no announcement of making
Windows
XP SP3 available by CD at this time (they will likely make the final
available in this way - but not the Release Candidate - and likely in the
same way they did SP2 - free at first - just for shipping later.) I also
have not seen any such announcement about Vista SP1 RCs... I think that
would be a monumentally bad choice by Microsoft - to make PUBLICALLY
available by CD/DVD a release candidate/beta version of a service pack.
The
download - I can understand... It steers fairly clear of the people who
rely
strictly on built-in mechanisms (or they wouldn't likely update at all.)
However - presenting it in CD/DVD format could cause those who would not
normally test such things to 'test it' without thinking/knowing they are
'testing'.
I think it is uninformed because you did not bother to explain to the OP
that Windows XP SP3 RC1 was beta/pre-release. You did not use the
knowledge
you have to warn the OP that what you are suggesting is to install
unfinished and unsupported updates to their operating system which could
change things drastically and cause more problems than it solves.
Perhaps you believe that SP3 is nothing but a rollup of the 90+ post-sp2
updates? Perhaps you have a representative of every software/hardware
package/device available in the world at your place of business/home and
have tried it with all possible combinations so you are actually making an
informed recommendation to the OP... I somehow doubt/doubted that,
however.
If you were trying to help - you would not recommend that a novice
computer
user install unsupported software that changes the entire architecture of
their computer and that they most likely will have to uninstall at some
future date in order to get the fully released/fully supported product.
It's going by the incorrect assumption that, "It works on my stuff -
should
be fine on everyone elses..." That assumption - especially when it comes
to
the millions of possibilities such as can be found here - is normally a
bad
one to make.
dkhyland wrote:
Itruly appreciate the advice from the both of you. Yes, I am a
novice user, to a point. Since I am not in any timeframe to
complete this long task, I think I'll play it safe and install the
Win XP recovery discs, follow the instructions and unfortunately go
through the XP updates one by one. I consider it my penalty for
jumping the gun on Windows Vista and installing it on my laptop so
soon. I have that tendency especially with techie stuff.
Donald L McDaniel wrote:
And I recognized that. Which is why I suggested you download and
install XP SP3. However, if your laptop is a "cheapie" model, I do
not suggest installing a release candidate on it. In this, Mr.
Stanley is correct.
But Mr. Stanley, apparently, has little respect for anyone but his
friends and co-workers.
This is the problem with most of the Microsoft shills who regularly
post here: They have huge egos (and some of them even have a right
to have such huge egos, because they have huge knowledge and
understanding to go along with it), but little true concern for the
people they claim to be "helping". And they have absolutely no
respect for anyone who is not in their little "clique". In this,
they are much like Mac Fanatics.
Donald L McDaniel, I welcome your opinion. I encourage you to present it.
I gave you mine - but instead of point and counter-point, you have decided
to ignore my response and only reply elsewhere, making a personal attack
upon me for which you have no basis. I would have hoped that someone
willing to help would be willing to backup the advice they have given when a
differing opinion is presented. It would not have mattered who you were -
my response would not have differed.
Microsoft means very little to me. If they go away today - my life only
changes a little. If these newsgroups disappear - there are other places to
help. I don't work for Microsoft, have never worked for Microsoft and most
likely will not work for Microsoft in my lifetime. I do use some of their
software and understand some of their software and willingly and freely
share that understanding here. I can just as easily (and do) help people
with OS X, *nix, etc. I choose the Microsoft stuff for the most part
because it has the most people utilizing it and is the most prevalent around
me at the moment.
I respect the fact that you are trying to help people, Donald L McDaniel.
That's fine.
I find it difficult to believe that you think telling someone to install a
pre-release Microsoft product that is unsupported (and is advertised as
such) is helping someone. They don't save any download time, they might
save effort,but there are other ways to save them effort and make sure that
the material they get is supported...
The simplest suggest I can make, dkhyland, is to install your new Operating
System and make sure the Windows XP firewall is enabled. Hopfully it will
come with at least SP2 out of the box - but if it does not - please obtain
and install that before placing that machine on the Internet.
Direct Download of Service Pack 2 (SP2) for Windows XP
(You can download it and bring it to the machine using any means you have.)
http://snipurl.com/8bqy
Order Windows XP Service Pack 2 on CD
http://snipurl.com/d41v
After you have Windows XP SP2 installed (which will mean by default the
Windows XP Firewall is enabled) - then you can connect it to the Internet
and visit:
http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com/
Where you can use the custom scan option (after a couple of installs
probably) to select and install all the critical updates you desirte (If
Internet Explorer 7 is still listed there - I consider that one 'optional'
on a per-person basis. You don't *have* to get that right now if you don't
want it.) After you have downloaded all the critical updates and rebooted -
visit the site again and custom scan again... There may be more critical.
If so, get those. Keep repeating this until you at least run out of
critical updates.
Then you can revisit that website and get the optional updates if you
desire... I recommend most of them - however - you may not want to get
Media Player 11 just yet. Depends on what software is installed on your
computer after the restoration. If an older versionn of Roxio Easy CD
Creator) is installed - (v8.x or before) then avoid it for now. They don't
get along. Otherwise - everything in the Optional category is game for
you - download and install away.
Do not get any of the hardware drivers from the site.
Once you have visited, rebooted, visited, rebooted and cleaned the site of
all updates you wanted to get... You are done with the Microsoft portion
and can install your other stuff.
The rest is a lot of information - but it is laid out in a manner that is
easy to understand - I hope...
Since I don't know much about the computer you are installing on - perhaps
you need to free up some space at this point as well...
If you are comfortable with the stability of your system, you can delete the
uninstall files for the patches that Windows XP has installed...
http://www3.telus.net/dandemar/spack.htm
Used Disk Cleanup?
Is hibernate turned on and do you use that feature?
Uninstalled unnecessary applications lately?
You can run Disk Cleanup - built into Windows XP - to erase all but your
latest restore point and cleanup even more "loose files"..
How to use Disk Cleanup
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310312
You can turn off hibernation if it is on and you don't use it..
When you hibernate your computer, Windows saves the contents of the system's
memory to the hiberfil.sys file. As a result, the size of the hiberfil.sys
file will always equal the amount of physical memory in your system. If you
don't use the hibernate feature and want to recapture the space that Windows
uses for the hiberfil.sys file, perform the following steps:
- Start the Control Panel Power Options applet (go to Start, Settings,
Control Panel, and click Power Options).
- Select the Hibernate tab, clear the "Enable hibernation" check box, then
click OK; although you might think otherwise, selecting Never under the
"System hibernates" option on the Power Schemes tab doesn't delete the
hiberfil.sys file.
- Windows will remove the "System hibernates" option from the Power Schemes
tab and delete the hiberfil.sys file.
You can control how much space your System Restore can use...
1. Click Start, right-click My Computer, and then click Properties.
2. Click the System Restore tab.
3. Highlight one of your drives (or C: if you only have one) and click on
the "Settings" button.
4. Change the percentage of disk space you wish to allow.. I suggest moving
the slider until you have just about 1GB (1024MB or close to that...
5. Click OK.. Then Click OK again.
You can control how much space your Temporary Internet Files can utilize...
Empty your Temporary Internet Files and shrink the size it stores to a
size between 64MB and 256MB..
- Open ONE copy of Internet Explorer.
- Select TOOLS -> Internet Options.
- Under the General tab in the "Temporary Internet Files" section, do the
following:
- Click on "Delete Cookies" (click OK) |
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Shenan Stanley
Guest
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:08 am Post subject: Re: Windows Vista back to XP SP2 |
|
|
dkhyland wrote:
| Quote: | Question: I have received 2 discs from HP. 1) Operating System CD
Win XP Pro SP2 and 2) Aplication and Driver Recovery DVD. When I
run the OS CD, it tells me that it's blocked due to compatibility
issues. I can't go any further. Please advise. Thanks, Devin
|
You are - I am guessing from the message - trying to run it from *inside*
windows?
That's not how this works... You are standing on a rug and trying to pick
it up/roll it up without getting off it first.
Boot from the CD.
(Be sure you backed everything up first.)
In fact - review the instructions I gave *way* early in the thread...
Complete conversation:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.windowsxp.setup_deployment/browse_frm/thread/42cae0f20f525c61/e965a73e3d06244b?lnk=st&q=#e965a73e3d06244b
( My first response gives you a link that will explain how to perform a
clean install - assuming that Windows XP CD they sent you is a true
installation CD. If it is not - booting from it will just wipe everything
and do everything for you anyway.  #4 in the steps has a link to a
pictographical step-by-step of a clean installation. )
--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html |
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